MyDD :: Open Thread

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

Every religious institution discriminates on religion. My synagogue wants a rabbi who is, you know, Jewish.

But I have no problem with this policy as long as the funded programs don't discriminate in hiring their staff for the soup kitchen or whatever they operate.

by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:58:31 PM EST
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by Blazers Edge on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:01:38 PM EST
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"Every religious institution discriminates on religion."

But I suppose therein lies the objection; why even get involved at all with religious organizations if they discriminate?

I accept the first criticism of Obama's faith-based plan but the second criticism that it gives federal funding to organizations that discriminate on the basis of faith in their hiring and firing decisions is false.

Re: I understand (2.00 / 1)

See digby at hullabaloo.com: She makes the excellent point that funds in these faith-based orgs are often combined into a General Fund so that they are difficult to earmark.

My main problem with Obama's plan is that the details of its administration are not that clear.

WHO is going to make sure that FBO's do not discriminate or misuse their grants?

WHO will set and adjudicate penalties, administer grant applications, make sure that Congressman or Senator or Evangelist A's pet congregation or Jewish Center or mega-church have the same access to Federal funding as an FBO with no political or insider favor?

HOW MUCH will Religion be allowed to be a part of the daily workings of an FBO? Will free-meal participants, for example, be required to attend a Mass or accept Jesus as their Saviour? Who will check?

I feel very queasy about this, and am beginning to feel alarmed.

by dembluestates on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:04:02 PM EST
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Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

Bingo. Exactly how I feel, and very well put.

I can't believe that more folks don't have a problem with this.

by emsprater on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:12:50 PM EST
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We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

I'd have a problem under some circumstances, but we'll have our folks writing the regulations, the people appointed by Obama. And the programs Obama supports do some great things.

Check out this report of where Obama visited today:
http://thepage.time.com/pool-report-of-o bamas-eastside-community-ministry-tour/

by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:44:36 PM EST
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Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

"Our people"?

There isn't a regulation written that can't be skirted. There isn't a regulation written by 'our people' that doesn't come back to bite us in the butt. "Our people" designed the butterfly ballot.

This is bad, no matter who controls it, because as I have stated many times, with faith based organizations, you can NEVER, that's N-E-V-E-R separate the 'faith' from the 'help'. Never, it isn't possible, because it's always there as an undercurrent, like sexism, racism, homophobia, it permeates every particle of the programs done by these folks, because that's their 'mission'. You can't do it.

I don't give a tinker's damn what Obama says he is going to do with this program, because what a typical politician says about how he is going to 'fix' something and how the final 'fix' comes out are never the same, sometimes not even in the same ballpark.

It's a bad idea for 'progressives' to climb aboard the bandwagon that has kept them down for so long just to pander for votes.

by emsprater on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:14:35 AM EST
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Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

I think the big problem is that even with legislation against the prostylezing and hiring discrimination based on belief, we will never , ever be able to seperate the 'faith' portion of a faith based organization from any 'help' that they wish to 'give' to the community.

by emsprater on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:10:40 PM EST
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Until Obama caves on this (none / 0)

like FISA.

by usedmeat on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:49:09 PM EST
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It is wrong! (2.00 / 2)

Why can't we UPHOLD the United States Constitution?

by kevin22262 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:31:08 PM EST
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Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

My favorite story of the day is that the McCain campaign won't advertise on PUMA sites because they're so racist: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/07/01/mccain-campaign-pulls-ads-from-s ome-anti-obama-web-sites/

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:54:23 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

I'd be laughing if it weren't for the fact that MyDD and it's moderators allowed many of the same exact people to post the same racist crap right here for months and months on end, even in the face of warnings from many of us as to exactly where the information was coming from.

How is it that McCain's people see this stuff for the racist crap it is, and yet it was allowed here? Why were people banned for calling it and the people (now revealed as right-wingers) posting it racist? Why did Jerome let some of these folks back onto the site after they had been banned, and rightly so, for being racists?

How the hell is it that McCain can spot this, but MyDD can't?

by Whash on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:29:29 PM EST
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Funny, the link doesn't seem to work (none / 0)

because the article I read didn't say anything about racism on the websites. But one site accused him of racism.

by usedmeat on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:54:18 PM EST
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Seems (2.00 / 2)

I hit a nerve with my comments about Obama hitting a few nerves in me.

I seriously did not want that so called diary/rant of mine to be on the rec list... but... maybe it is a good thing?

by kevin22262 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:29:35 PM EST

huh? (none / 0)

by kevin22262 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:29:53 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

registering voters, got ten. could have been worse. met some... interesting characters. one guy, asked about my welch shirt. he asked what welch's stand on mens rights were. started in about how breast cancer and prostate cancer are the two gender related cancers, yet reast cancer gets 600% more funding than prostate cancer. said it was a secret media conspiracy to only talk about gender issues if the woman is the victim. yeah..... oddly enough he might not have been the craziest person there. the other contender was this guy with long hair, and a clamp in it. he told me how to play darts (i smiled and nodded) then gave me three lipton teabags. i wiped my fingerprints off them and threw them away. not sure how you can tamper with a teabag, but i don' want to find out. the worst thing was THEY DIDN'T EVEN REGISTER!

"Katie, i'd like to use one of my lifelines, i'd like to phone a friend." "governor Palin"

by Doug Tuttle on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:21:18 PM EST

Whoa that is wierd. (none / 0)

What kind of neighborhood were you in? I don't think I would want to go there alone.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:23:09 PM EST
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Re: Whoa that is wierd. (none / 0)

it's weird, but not scary. a mix between progressives, crazies, and damn filthy hippies.

"Katie, i'd like to use one of my lifelines, i'd like to phone a friend." "governor Palin"

by Doug Tuttle on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:56:54 PM EST
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Organizing and religion (2.00 / 1)

Obama is one clever man. He understands that churches are the strongest most efficient grasstroots organizations out there. They dwarf secular grassroots organizations in their ability to mobilize and network committed long term volunteers.
The GOP has effectively embarrassed the hell out of Democrats for years with this understanding.

Obama is energizing not just left leaning religious folks but many of the more "conservative Christians" once committed to GWB. He's inspired them with a refocus on true core Christian values of service, compassion and charity.

When ya'll signed on for "Change" you should have been prepared for some serious shaking out of the old rules and some new faces in the crowd.

Sexism is real.

by grassrootsorganizer on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:32:37 PM EST

nothing like (none / 0)

"changing" the Constitution.

by kevin22262 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:14:01 PM EST
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Re: nothing like (none / 0)

No, nothing like it.

by Shaun Appleby on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:17:49 PM EST
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Constitution comes FIRST (none / 0)

and always FIRST when it comes to our Nation. Not god, not religion, not a book.

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 02:35:57 AM EST
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Re: Constitution comes FIRST (none / 0)

Yeah, cool, I agree. So what's the problem, as I said it is nothing like tearing up the Constitution in the context in which Obama has framed it. And he is righting a wrong perpetrated on us on that point by the Bush administration in the same stroke.

by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 03:47:51 AM EST
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We all think of the (none / 0)

evangelicals these days when we think of faith-based initiatives because that's who has been getting all the money during Bush's admin. for their crazy rightwing causes.

But think of it this way -- churches, mosques and synagogs do lots of stuff that has nothing to do with religion. They are like the original community activists. And they don't all proselytize. I was raised Unitarian and you know Unitarians don't proselytize yet they do lots of things to help the community.

As long as Obama doesn't discriminate between religions (hell, the pastafarians should be entitled too) and keeps the religious groups accountable that they don't use it to proselytize then it doesn't really violate the constitution. We should keep a close eye on how the program(s) are administered and how the recipients are monitored though. Otherwise, they should lose their tax-exempt status.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:32:05 PM EST
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Well then (none / 0)

let the Churches and such do it themselves. Let their followers pay for it.

When religion and government mix... it is not a good thing!

Neither is the mixing of corporations and government. - see how that has worked out?

How has the mixing of religion and government worked out around the world? .. not to good, i would say.